TOYOTA 4000kg TOWING CAPACITY WITH HITCH-EZY
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:13 am    Post subject: TOYOTA 4000kg TOWING CAPACITY WITH HITCH-EZY Reply with quote

Hello Friends,

I cannot emphasis how big this is... Previously the biggest breakthrough in caravan towing was when I pioneered a 1990 F-350 Ford 7.3 diesel as a great tow vehicle in the Magazines, going on 20 years ago? ... Safer, better fuel economy, long wheelbase control over a larger van, and in the beginning everyone laughed at me. Many even thought it was a custom built dual cab Ford 4x4. Rolling Eyes It has taken us a long way, with Fords, Dodges, and Chevrolet diesel trucks towing larger vans. I is now common place and has become a standard for large vans and horse floats in the past two decades. Yes, it is true that they are safer, with a long wheelbase control over the larger vans, and yes they do get better fuel economy when towing, and can save your Life in a pinch as anyone can swerve to avoid an accident at high speed. The trick is the recovery and the longer wheelbase can do this and still be able to recover and correct after a major accident avoidance maneuver on the highway. There is just no match for the safety of a longer wheel base.. Wink

In saying that, 80% of our Bushtracker Owners still tow with Landcruiser for a variety of valid reasons... They are more affordable especially with our .75 A $ currency. And even bigger than that, many are only seasonally travelling and the Landcruiser is better size wise if you are coming back to a suburban setting. No question, it is easier to park and garage and so on.. However, on larger vans, we have battled for years to keep the weight down for Landcruiser Owners and still allow for a larger payload capacity. We would like to allow for at least 600 kg, to have more tanks of water and goods on board in a 20-21' Bushtracker, with all the luxury items on board that people want these days, so we have to coach Owners on being a bit more selective when they want everything..!

Well Friends, that might all change. We have someone that knows an Insider in a major Company, that claims they are about to release a suspension and a way to upgrade the Towing Capacity of the 200 Series to 4000 kg. This would be a major game changer. While I cannot verify it yet, it supposed to be announced in the next two weeks to two months. Hmmmmm YEA!

Instead of having to prioritize a bit on the larger Bushtracker vans, those that want it all, can still have it all and tow with a 200 Series Landcruiser. Not I cannot see how it is even possible, but it comes from a reliable source. So you might put this possibility into your plans for the future. Of course, I will keep you posted, and will update this at the first available opportunity 24/7..

Now assuming this is true, I must Lecture on the importance of wheelbase length. It is not just weight, it is leverage on length as well. At some point, the length of the tail can wag the dog.. Laughing Having done the R&D on 200 Series, own my fourth right now, yes you can tow a 22' foot but this is not a perfect world. At 22' if something bad happens, anyone can make the big swerve but the length of the van can hinder the leverage of the tow vehicle and push you into a jackknife situation or lose control. In my experience even 22' is just not safe behind the shorter wheelbase of a 200 Series. Weight is one issue, length and leverage of control with the wheelbase is another issue OK? I do care about your long term well being. We are an ethical Company. I would still Counsel that a loaded up 20' or 21' is the safe upper limit even if they up the Towing Capacity to 4000 kg.

Looking after your best interests, Steven Gibbs, Director, Bushtracker[/b]


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:07 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gotten some inquiry as to GCM and it is not widely enforced for non-commercial vehicles....

In fact, it is not even checked for vehicles under 4500 kg GVM, as for many vehicles in this range there is no GCM listed. Your concern for Landcruisers is not warranted and not enforced, it exists only in theory and not to Transport Officials. Why?

Some do not even have a GCM listed. In fact I have heard of no enforcement of GCM in non-commercial use vehicles at all. Anything less than a dual rear wheel truck, has little to no GCM enforcement. They are talking about automatic license plate reads of the likes of Dodge-Ford-Chev trucks to signal them to pull off for truck weighbridges, if registered over 4500 kg. That has not even happened yet for those in private use towing caravans...

Just in case, my Dodge is Registered Mod Plated down to 4490 GVM, but there is no enforcement of GCM on smaller vehicles like Landcruiser wagons. Nor will there ever likely be, as many of the smaller non-commercial vehicles do not even have a posted GCM. As far as I know, I believe in Australia you can drive a GCM of up to 9000 kg on a regular car license, so GCM is just not a concern and not checked on smaller tow vehicles like this.. OK?

Kind regards, stg


Last edited by Bushtracker on Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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petpat47



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As the little boy says: "your gunna need a bigger boat"/engine. Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning all,
Could not agree more Steve, the exhaust braking system on the Ram makes towing a loaded 21ft Bushtracker a breeze. It takes the stress out of the downhill braking on the driver as well and that is when towing in 2WD, even better in 4WD! Love the Ram.
Cheers,
Robyn
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for that support, I do try and give an unbiased objective view, particularly to coach new Owners....

In saying that, one thing I may have not addressed adequately, is the issue of "Driver Fatigue". While Landcruiser will still do the job quite well, and now possibly with its legs stretched a little, there is simply no comparison to how you will feel after a big day.. There is a level of stress you do not have with the larger wheelbase. Your biggest problem towing with something like the Dodge Ram, is forgetting you have the van on the back!!! Heh he Wink You can actually catch yourself pulling out to pass, forgetting you are 15 meters long... 😎 We have a LOT of experience long haul, me? Interstate with horses as well as Bushtracker. My Staff? Interstate, even two States, to Shows...

Look, a message to all: This idea of 4000kg Landcruiser fills a niche, granted..! But it is still not the only answer for larger vans, and if you are not returning to the city, arguably not even the best answer... My only point, and now I will get off my soapbox...

Kind regards from the road Ranger
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Loki of Condor



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no doubt a lot of people who travel full time and need to take a lot of stuff with them would find this upgrade handy.

There are also a lot of people who take unused stuff out and leave it at home before the next trip so that they can travel as light as possible.

It will be good to have a wider choice to meet people's needs.
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Munners



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Friends,

The Lovells tow capacity increase is coming, with this Hitch-Ezy. It is the most solid hitch we have ever seen, rated to 5 ton, but is way over built.







The first edition of the Lovells tow capacity increase is with the Mac-Hitch, sorry but we do not like the Mac-Hitch, and we are not alone. This is could put some of you off sides with me that have this, but this is not political, hear me out as to what is wrong, for your own good OK?

1) First of all (IN Our Opinion), it does not work well with the necessary WDH…. I mean they have modified the WDH to work with it, but in our opinion it does not work as well, the Mac-Hitch just hangs out too far..

2) Besides In Our Opinion ugly, In Our Opinion it has some Engineering problems. For example it has been brought to our attention a yoke fracture of the casting, and we have personally had a problem moving a Bushtracker around with the forklift, where the needle bearing pre-tension has been lost and we had to replace the whole hitch. In our opinion we think this is also going to be a long term wear problem and it will not stay up in the horizontal position to hook up.

3) We are going to have to use the Owners Adjustable head unit, putting it in and out of the Forklift mount to move the van around. The Mac-hitch will incur an hour extra labor on any Service or repairs, and the Owners will have to sign a disclaimer that we are not liable if it is damaged. This is not personal, I am not sure if I have met either of the Company Owners or have had any personal dealings, this is not personal it is pure Engineering. On the one we just had problems with, the pretension in the needle bearings was lost and it got all Mac-Droopy..

4) I mean why wouldn’t we be happy to use the Mac-Hitch when: It is cheaper than the Vehicle Components D.O. 45 and MUCH cheaper than the Hitch EZY. I mean in your best interests: We have made a ruling that we will no longer build a new Bushtracker with a Mac-Hitch.

5) The Lovells 200 Series Landcruiser Tow Capacity increase, is not accepted by Bushtracker and others, with the Mac-Hitch. In the lighter Mac-Hitch version, it is not approved with a WDH at all, and we will not use this as in our opinion towing 4 ton without a WDH is pure madness.

Our choice, is more expensive, but our choice is the Hitch-Ezy. This Hitch-Ezy has been approved and is pending ADR finals, pending some Engineering paperwork equivalent in Australia, for the American Engineering tests on the Reece Hitch.. We like the Hitch-Ezy, I even have one on my own van, that you see in a Tour of my van and equipment. IMO it is the strongest hitch in its class that I have ever seen.

This latest refined version of the Hitch-Ezy gets our endorsement. Further, we are going to start using it for all Lovells Landcruiser tow capacity upgrades, and all larger vans, it is that good. It will probably replace the D.O.45, it is that good, at least it will be an option. For those that want to change over to it, it has the same 6 bolt pattern as the D.O. 45, mine was replaced with it the Hitch-Ezy, a straight bolt up affair. It is on my own van and I am very impressed with it..





The big knob of the hitch, has a very good grease cover on an o-ring seal. Here it is on my own tow vehicle...



In Your Best Interests, Steven Gibbs, Director
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IT IS HERE, FINALLY, AND WITH THE HITCH-EZY... FOR STATE 1 AND STAGE 2 KITS.

Dear Distributor, Authorised Fitter and GVM Upgrade Client,

THE FIRST FEDERALLY COMPLIANCED TOWING UPGRADE PACKAGE IN AUSTRALIA

Lovells are pleased to announce that we have been granted Federal Compliance Plate Approval as a Second Stage Manufacturer for the BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) Upgrade of the TOYOTA LANDCRUISER LC200 WAGON. (Build date 11/07 to current)

APPROVALS
40257-190937- LC200 Diesel- 7 & 8 Seater
40257-190936- LC200 Petrol- 7 & 8 Seater
46734-1191613- LC200 Diesel and Petrol- 5 Seater


WHY DO VEHICLES REQUIRE BTC (Braked Towing Capacity) UPGRADES?

The solution for owners/managers of Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series Wagon vehicles who have a need to tow to 4000kg (up from 3500kg standard Braked Towing Capacity), while at the same time meeting the practical and documentary compliance requirements of Work Safety, Police Licensing, Insurance, Lessors and Fleet Managers. This kit is complianced by the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government and Federal Compliance kits come complete with a Second Stage Manufacturers compliance plate.

Federal Compliance (pre-registration) and State Compliance (post-registration) BTC Upgrades can only be fitted to vehicles fitted with a Lovells 3800kg GVM Upgrade.
Lovells Toyota Landcruiser LC200 GVM Upgrade kits have been tested and approved for Full Volume Second Stage Manufacture to comply with ADR35/05 ESC (Electronic Stability Control) Sine with Dwell verification and are suitable for KDSS and non-KDSS variants.

Please refer to the attached documentation for Technical Information and ordering procedures.


IMPORTANT INFORMATION

FOR STATE COMPLIANCE ORDERS, THE VIN MUST BE PRE-CHECKED/CROSS REFERENCED BY LOVELLS TO VERIFY IT HAS A GVM UPGRADE FITTED PRIOR TO ORDER ACCEPTANCE/PROCESSING.

TRR-122HDAV REAR COIL SPRINGS CAN BE SUBSTITUTED BASED ON THE FOLLOWING:
- Vehicle is close to rear axle loading capacity of 2000kg
- Ball weight is greater than 300kg
- Vehicle ‘s primary use is for towing at maximum capacity
(This is a case by case option and should be asked prior to order placement. If specified, please hand write TRR-122HDAV in rear coil section on ORDER FORM).


Stage 1 BTC Upgrade Kit- Recommended for towing 3500kg-3700kg Apparatus.
Kit includes height adjustable fabricated tongue and Lovells Offroad Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 350kg)
Not compatible with most weight distribution systems.
(This kit is however still rated at 4000kg braked towing capacity)

Stage 2 BTC Upgrade Kit- Recommended for towing 3500kg-4000kg Apparatus.
Kit includes a Lovells 1200lb Weight Distribution Hitch system (WDH), cast head, drop shank with 95mm height adjustment and Lovells Offroad Hitch.
(Ball weight must not exceed 400kg)

Please note that the Lovells BTC Upgrade can only be complied if a Lovells GVM Upgrade is fitted to the vehicle.

Lovells BTC Upgrade tongue/hitch, drop shank/hitch can only be attached to the Toyota OE Towbar and is not compliant for aftermarket tow bars.



Warranty – Lovells Suspension and Towing Kits
Coil Springs 5 year unlimited km
Leaf Springs 5 year unlimited km
Shock Absorbers 3 year/70.000km whichever occurs first
Suspension Components 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first
Towing Components 2 year/40,000km whichever occurs first


Fleet and Authorised Fitter Pricing are available upon request.

Please note that the lead time for BTC Upgrade Kits will be approximately 4-6 working weeks from receipt of official BTC Order Form attached, based on committed projects and contracts. We have pre-empted the popularity of these kits, thus stock levels of all components are considerable, yet lead time for compliance plates and packing times will govern the supply time.


Should you require further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.


Best regards,

Mike


Mike Davison

Sales and Marketing Manager

Lovells Springs Pty Ltd
PO Box 5126
Minto BC
Unit 3, 25-31 Airds Rd
Minto NSW 2566
AUSTRALIA

Ph: +61 2 9820 6800
Fax: +61 2 9820 6788
E-Mail: miked@lovells.com.au
Web: www.lovells.com.au
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Ian from Noosa



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: BTC Upgrade 200 Series Reply with quote

Wow, thanks Steve, this is GREAT news. I have been waiting patiently for the announcement and have had several conversations with Dragon from Lovells to get the latest but all he could say was "watch this space"

A couple of questions ..

Will Bushtracker be able to fit the upgrade or does this have to be done through Lovells (I already have the GVM upgrade).

Will Bushtracker be fitting the new tow hitch to the van?

I have spoken to PT about increasing my 3500ATM to 4000 and have an understanding of what is required to be done by BT for that - so if I bring my Bushtracker in one day, can you take care of everything so that I can drive out with the upgraded Towing capacity on the vehicle AND ATM on the van.

thanks
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are still working through the practical methods here.....

For the conversions on older vans, it is not so straight forward: It looks like Lovells will be doing their bit on the vehicles, and we will do our bit on the vans... Some Bushtrackers will need the hitch holes welded solid and re-drilled, and the Bartlett Chains pin locks welded on fishplates on the a-frame and it cold galvanized.. They for the most part are not going to be equipped to do that. In any case we would have to see and inspect the Bushtracker to write the new VIN plate...

Kind Regards, Steven Gibbs, Director
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following recent ESC testing performed on the LC200 Wagon to comply with the latest ADR’s, we have updated all GVM Upgrade documents for this vehicle type.

Our revised Compliance Plate Approvals are as follows:
APPROVALS
40257-1190937- LC200 Diesel- 7 & 8 Seater (GXL, VX & Sahara)
40257-1190936- LC200 Petrol- 7 & 8 Seater (GXL, VX & Sahara)
46734-1191613- LC200 Diesel- 5 Seater (GX)

Kind regards,
Mike

Mike Davison

Sales and Marketing Manager

Lovells Springs Pty Ltd
Brisbane
PO Box 60
Jimboomba QLD 4280
AUSTRALIA

Sydney
PO Box 5126
Minto BC
Unit 3, 25-31 Airds Rd
Minto NSW 2566
AUSTRALIA
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Intrepid Travellers



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve I was advised by TJM Maroochydore that in Queenland the upgrade will result in the vehicle having to be inspected annually at a Transport and Main Roads aprroved inspection station. Is this your understanding?
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2012 Toyota LC200 VX, 20' 2012 Bushtracker
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Bushtracker
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry,'this is all new to me as well...

However, it could be as trailers over 3500 kg are subject to an annual inspection.. Mind you, it is not much, sort of: Look at the shoes through an inspection port to make sure there is adequate shoe material, and check the lights.. Sort of an $80-$100 affair..


Last edited by Bushtracker on Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rick & Kerrie



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

When we had our van upgraded to 4t we had to have the inspection done at a heavy vehicle station in Q'land.

we had it done in Longreach it went something like this,

where's the plate , I have to check the vin no?

do the lights work? they did when I hooked up 10 mins ago, thats good.

Its an great looking van here's your ticket have a good trip.

the second time it was done in NSW, the inspection wasn't quite as extensive.

Cheers Rick
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steveor



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great description Rick ! Smile

Sounds as comprehensive as it needs to be Smile
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petpat47



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
On the Sunny Coast the Transport Dept send you to a private inspection company that they have certified.
Rego on our van was just renewed. Called a mobile inspection agent and he came out to the house, inspected the van, issued the COI which I took to Qld Transport office along with rego papers. All done, see u next year.
Peter Very Happy
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Intrepid Travellers



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter
What is the name of the private inspection company on the Sunshine Coast that the Transport Department referred you to?
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2012 Toyota LC200 VX, 20' 2012 Bushtracker
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petpat47



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John
Procheck Automotive in Caloundra. Ph 1800776243.
Good service and easier than having to take the van somewhere. Chk out their website. No affiliation, just a happy customer.
Peter Very Happy
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Intrepid Travellers



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Peter.

This is the approved inspection operator on the Sunshine Coast that I have been recommended by others.
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pjfollyfarm



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Lovells Landcruiser GVM Upgrade in Perth Reply with quote

Hi Everyone.

I am considering the 4 Tonne Lovells Landcruiser 200 series towing upgrade as I struggle to keep my 20ft Bushtracker under the current legal 3.5 Tonne Gross Weight.

The precursor to the towing upgrade is the Lovells Landcruiser 200 series 3.8 Tonne GVM upgrade. WA Suspensions in Osborne Park in WA is a listed installation agent for Lovells.

I wonder if anyone has had experience specifically with this Company & would be prepared to recommend them or not for Lovells upgrade work. Your input very much appreciated.........😎
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Scooter



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Lovells Landcruiser GVM Upgrade in Perth Reply with quote

Had the Lovell 3.8 tonne GVM upgrade done by WA Suspensions about 5 years ago and get a wheel alignment done there every couple of year.
Good company, professional and do quality work. Never had a problem.
Still towing with the same set up.
Regards
Scooter.
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pjfollyfarm



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Scooter,

I have now talked to them a couple of times & impressed by the professional responses I have had. Planning to go ahead soon. Short delay with shoulder surgery...... Cool
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ERIC & GAIL



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:25 am    Post subject: Tips on tow vehicles Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me what the total cost would be to upgrade a 200 Landcruiser to the 4000kg towing limit
Regards
Eric
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GoSeeAus



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have had the Lovell's 3.8 tonne GVM upgrade and 4 Tonne Tow Upgrade just completed at TJM Kilsyth here in Victoria and the cos t was $7,900.00 with engineering and compliance certification.

Hopes this helps it should be similar in QLD.

Regards

John
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Grumpy



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric,

Had the Lovells 3800kg GVM done, pre picking up BT in 2014, at TJM Townsville cost $3300.
Just had the Lovells 4000kg upgrade done at same place for $3900.

Also had BT complete the Van 4000kg upgrade as well, so some minor cost here too.

Have done a few thousand Km now in South Western Qld with no issues, all good.
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ERIC & GAIL



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks John and Grumpy,
Guess I might stick with my original plan of buying a pre loved Ford F250, as Steve says there's nothing like a longer and wider footprint on the road in an emergency. He is the man that talked me into our first F250 when we bought our first BT back in 1998 it was one of the first out of the Factory. Not sure what's happened with Steve but he was a major fan of the Fords back then but has changed his preference by the looks of it.
Regards
Eric
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eric,
Nice to hear from you again, hope this catch you and Gail in good health and good spirits, long time no see...

Nothing has changed with me, it is Ford that changed...
You do not have full engine access in the Fords, and most of the Fords in the past decade were designed to pull the whole cab off for anything serious like even a Turbo seal or head gaskets or something..

The Cummins is a Big Rig 6.7 litre six cylinder, so a straight six that has full engine access both sides. Also it does not worry about longer term idle, they let them run in the deep snow keeping the cab warm while they have dinner in the heavy snow country... It is backed by Cummins, Chrysler, as well as the Conversion Specialists SCD. You can read about them in this Category.

In America, I could quite happily be a Ford Man again. Every Dealer has a crew that in about 20-30 minutes can unbolt and unhook the whole cab on a special hoist, and push the chassis away from under it.. Not here.. Confused

I still like the Fords, no worries, but I drive what is best for our Bushtracker Owners and IMO the straight six Cummins diesel is far easier to work on, and idles longer without a problem.

Kind regards, Steven Gibbs, Director
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ERIC & GAIL



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 22
Location: Broadbeach
State:: Queensland
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reply, we are as well as advancing age will allow us to be, as I am sure you and other senior members of the BT extended family can relate to.
Since 1998 since you delivered to us the first of our 3 Bushtrackers we have been touring OZ not full time back then but gave it a pretty good shot, in 2012 we hit the road full time in a Winnebago longreach motorhome towing a vehicle, sold that in late 2014 to buy a 32 ft Motorhome in the USA and toured there until March last year. One night in February last year Gail said...why don't we buy a house boat and live on the Broadwater between the Gold Coast and Brisbane, I guess with our years of owning sailing catamarans I couldn't bring myself to living on a house boat so we bought a 38 ft sailing cat in March last year and have been to the Whitsunday islands last winter and to Sydney this year. It's time now to sell the boat and hit the road again in a BT and F250 or maybe a Ram, i will be doing some research on them after your advice, how old is to old for a used one? I got frustrated with the Winnebago motorhome and towing a vehicle on an A frame, just to restricting to where you can go, nothing like a good off road caravan a capable 4x4 tow vehicle to take you most places.
Look forward to catching up soon
Regards
Eric & Gail
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Paul Jones



Joined: 04 May 2017
Posts: 1
Location: St. Louis City
State:: MO
Current Bushtracker owner:: No
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree to this! Well said sir!

http://www.stlouiscitytowing.com/
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Loki of Condor



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 568
Location: MANDURAH
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul Jones wrote:
I totally agree to this! Well said sir!

http://www.stlouiscitytowing.com/




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lets went



Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Cairns
State:: QLD
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: GVM and GCM Reply with quote

Hi not to reignite the GCM debate again on vehicles under 4.5 tonne and still be able to tow 3.5 tonne with a GVM upgrade.
I am in the middle of it at the moment, have spoken to our insurer and they say they are guided by Queelsland transport, Queensland transport say the are guided by the vehicles manufactory, that is all fine as well as there is no GCM recorded on a new vehicles compliance plate before or after a GVM upgrade has been done on the vehicle and neither is there a GCM increase noted any where which you would think would be done, but it is documented on the web sites of Toyota , Mazda and Ford so would this GCM as it is the manufactures recommendation be used even if you have done a GVM upgrade, well that is what I have been informed by the dealer.
Hope I have it very wrong,
Can someone please help.
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Bushtrek



Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 131
Location: BONNET BAY , Sydney
State:: NSW
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A light vehicle under the Australian Regulations does not have a Gross Combination Mass (GCM).
That's it, no if, buts, maybe's. GCM does not apply. What OEM's write on their "websites" is irrelevant to the Road Vehicle Certification System.

A Light vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) and has a maximum braked towing mass capability.

The trailer (caravan) you are towing has an Aggregate Trailer Mass (ATM). This is defined as the mass transmitted to the ground through the tyres AND any downforce on the tow bar

So as long as the trailer you are towing has an ATM below the maximum towing mass limit of the vehicle you are using, you comply with relevant regulations.

What you are doing when you increase the GVM of your vehicle is create more headspace for adding more load mass capability to the towing vehicle.
It does not involve consideration of the mass of the vehicle and trailer added together.
Hope this helps.
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Graeme & Chris
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lets went



Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Cairns
State:: QLD
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gareme thanks for clearing that up, I did go onto the RVCS site and looked at the notes at the bottom of the page of a few vehicles and it states the GVM Upgrade, but as well as that it said, rest of the vehicles remains as per the OEM.
So I got a little worried that’s all.

Thanks again.
John
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Nothin But



Joined: 20 Aug 2015
Posts: 3
Location: Umina Beach
State:: NSW
Current Bushtracker owner:: Ordered
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="GoSeeAus"]We have had the Lovell's 3.8 tonne GVM upgrade and 4 Tonne Tow Upgrade just completed at TJM Kilsyth here in Victoria and the cos t was $7,900.00 with engineering and compliance certification.

Hopes this helps it should be similar in QLD.

Regards

John[/quoteq

John
Did the hitch upgrade include the Lovell's blue coloured hitch and was an independent engineer involved in the GVM upgrade. Was the car pre or post registration? Thanks
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lets went



Joined: 09 Sep 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Cairns
State:: QLD
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi the upgrade you have is spot on for what the RCVC web site has in the remarks so not a problem at all with yours. It was more the GVM upgrade that I was concerned about and GCM to a new pre rego vehicle, but Bushtrek totally expand that above so no more of a problem.
Happy Days.
Thanks. Very Happy
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mdhammer



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 5
Location: Korora
State:: NSW
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:00 am    Post subject: Caravan GVM Upgrade Reply with quote

Steve,
I am currently travelling looking at getting the Lovells upgrade when I get home, but would like to have the Van upgraded to, I am heading to Gympie muster on the way home and calling past Bushtracker, if I have the Hitch-Ezy 5T hitch on, can Bushtracker upgrade the compliance plate and manufacturer certificate. So when I head home I can get the Lovells fitted and get the Vehicle upgraded to 4000 GVM.
Many Thanks
Hammer
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Bushtracker
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4765
Location: Kunda Park
State:: Queensland
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammer,
First of all we do not do Business on the Forum... If we did it would be clogged with 50 entries a week that are personal and not relative to the greater picture...

Send me an email to sales@bushtracker.com, and give me more information like size of van, year, what the suspension side plate says as in 3500 or 4000 kg, and what date you would like this done...

As a rule we do not upgrade the ATM beyond the tow vehicle capacity, but we may stretch things a bit on Good Faith and have you sign a waiver that you know you cannot tow that ATM legally until your vehicle is upgraded....

Regards, Director, Bushtracker
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pjfollyfarm



Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Gidgegannup
State:: Western Australia
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Ideal Nose down level for Bushtracker towing Reply with quote

I have recently completed the Lovells Landcruiser 200 series GVM Upgrade, 4T Towing pack and upgraded my April 2016 20ft Bushtracker from 3500 to 3850kg ATM. This was done in WA, inspected and passed by the Department of Transport here. Feeling much better that the van will now be legal with 4 full tanks of water and a full load of "stuff" for an extended journey.

As recommended by Steve I have installed the Lovells supplied Hitch Ezy coupling below the drawbar (I did try it on top but the super heavy 1200lb WDH torsion bars fouled the bottom of the drawbar).

Unfortunately on my setup, with the Hitch Ezy underneath the drawbar and even using the longest Hayman Reese drop shank (160mm) at the lowest setting, on a level surface, the van is nose down by only 20mm compared to the back (with WDH torsion bars chained in position as required for the Lovells 4T towing package and the van close to fully loaded including water).

Is 20mm nose down for the van enough for best practice safe towing with a Landcruiser 200 series, and/or is there anything else I could do to further drop the front of the van without major modifications or voiding the 4T towing legality?

I hope someone may have had a similar experience or have an answer for me.......... Cool
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Bushtracker
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4765
Location: Kunda Park
State:: Queensland
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am on the IPhone here in the middle of the night without the resources to help you, but something does not sound right in your set up so I need to see it.

You need to Email me a side view of the set up, to Bushtracker. Send a couple of pictures, small in format like 200 kb, to sales@bushtracker.com and I will have a look, but something does not sound right in the way it has been set up...

Regards, Steven Gibbs, Director
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niknoff



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 301
Location: Safety Bay
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ was the 20mm spacer used on the tow pin ?
The instructions that came with my HitchEzy mentioned the spacer must be used if using the weight distribution bars.
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Mick & Vickie
www.niknoff.com
07' 19' BushTracker
2015 VX 200, 3800kg GVM Upgrade
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pjfollyfarm



Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Gidgegannup
State:: Western Australia
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Hitch-Ezy Setup Reply with quote

Thanks Mick. The Hitch-Ezy came as part of the Lovells package & I didn’t see any spacer. If there had been one immediately below the pin it would have been even worse, raising the front of the van even more.......I think my brain has that the right way round......... Cool
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niknoff



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 301
Location: Safety Bay
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ I have my Hitch Ezy mounted on top of the drawbar, I don't use WDB's.
Instructions do say the spacer is used to stop the WDB's from fouling.




I haven't got that fussy about nose down, I prefer the rig to sit level and in ten years it's always towed peferctly fine behind all three vehicles I've used.
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www.niknoff.com
07' 19' BushTracker
2015 VX 200, 3800kg GVM Upgrade
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pjfollyfarm



Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Gidgegannup
State:: Western Australia
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again for the feedback Mick. I will have a play around with levels over a bit of time. Unfortunately I am committed to the WDH torsion bars as it is an integral part of the Lovells 4T LC 200 series tow package.

My previous Kedron was set up roughly level & it towed well without problems over several years. Steve has always promoted on this forum that safest towing position is nose down, but my Bushtracker was set up as almost level on original delivery to me as they supplied the stock standard Hayman Reese drop shank. Again I had no problems or any issues with that, but I do tow carefully & generally between 90 & 95 kph.

What a wanted to make sure was that I wasn’t nose up, which I have managed to avoid with quite a bit of messing around.......... Cool

PS. Still waiting on my long waited for delivery from Matt Stockwell. Apparently he has had a delay in some components from Germany and ever growing demand. Hoping it will arrive & I can still get Trevor to instal it before I head East again in November sometime.
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niknoff



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 301
Location: Safety Bay
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ, yes Matt is waiting on some components plus he recently took a deserved holiday but is back now and it may be worth giving him a call or text to see where he's at .. unless your aware in which case disregard this. πŸ˜„

IMO don't stress to much about the nose down, provided there is sufficient ball weight of course, level works fine. Also I do think it's worth trying the hitch on top of the drawbar but you will need the spacer which you could get from HitchEzy.

Steve may disagree in which case this post will self destruct in 30 seconds πŸ˜‚
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Mick & Vickie
www.niknoff.com
07' 19' BushTracker
2015 VX 200, 3800kg GVM Upgrade
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Bushtracker
Site Admin


Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 4765
Location: Kunda Park
State:: Queensland
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friends,
This is bad advice.....

Just because one Owner gets away with towing level, does not make it right. A certain percentage of you Owners can get away with it due to the interactive towing dynamics between tow vehicle suspension and van suspension. However, then a certain percentage will also come to serious grief and possible self-destruction with out of control sway, trying to tow level or up in the front.

We know that from towing the thousands. Just because one of you gets away with it, only sets a bad example that can get some on hurt or worse in an accident. Harmonic motion with the surface of a bad road and the Bushtracker suspension can lead to disaster, if the van is not set up with a down position on the front of at least 50 mm..

In the example above with PJ, unfortunately Lovells have not Complied (ADR Compliancing) the system with the drop bars style of WDH hitch, with hitch on top, that gives the correct clearances. For you PJ, you need to angle that hitch pin of the Hitch-Ezy, with the adjustable head unit of the WDH, back about 20 degrees to get the minimum clearances for the bars. It looks ugly but that is the direction from the Lovells Engineering and OKed by Hitch-Ezy.

Just because NicknOff gets away with tow level, means danger if others try it.. It could even feel OK in good conditions, but then in the wrong conditions disaster can strike with sway caused by the interaction of patchwork quilt road or soft shoulder surfaces...

Kind regards, but "In Your Best Interests"
Steven Gibbs, Director
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pjfollyfarm



Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Gidgegannup
State:: Western Australia
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Change of Hitch Setup Reply with quote



Hi Steve,

I have been experimenting with the various hitch components & options that I now have. By using the Hayman Reese 800lb WDS with the curved torsion bars and a 95mm drop shank, I am able to mount the Hitch- Ezy coupling on top of the drawbar and still have plenty of clearance between the a-frame & the bars.

With this set up, the front of the van cabin is 100 - 110mm down in front, although with the naked eye it almost looks level. Is this now too much nose down for my 20ft Bushtracker with about 300kg on the ball, or still in your preferred towing zone?
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Loki of Condor



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 568
Location: MANDURAH
State:: WA
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Change of Hitch Setup Reply with quote

pjfollyfarm wrote:


Hi Steve,

I have been experimenting with the various hitch components & options that I now have. By using the Hayman Reese 800lb WDS with the curved torsion bars and a 95mm drop shank, I am able to mount the Hitch- Ezy coupling on top of the drawbar and still have plenty of clearance between the a-frame & the bars.

With this set up, the front of the van cabin is 100 - 110mm down in front, although with the naked eye it almost looks level. Is this now too much nose down for my 20ft Bushtracker with about 300kg on the ball, or still in your preferred towing zone?


While waiting for Steve's response, I'll chuck my 2 cents in: is it possible to raise the ball/bar part of the hitch higher by one or two bolt holes on the drop shank?

Even one bolt hole would reduce that 100mm to something closer to 70mm or so.
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Mandurah WA
http://farcanal.blogspot.com/
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pjfollyfarm



Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Posts: 53
Location: Gidgegannup
State:: Western Australia
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Stephen,
I now have multiple options to raise the front of the van including adjustments on the current or even a shorter drop shank. That is why I am asking if 100-110mm nose down is too much, or still in the zone......😎
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GoSeeAus



Joined: 28 Mar 2013
Posts: 19
Location: Wantirna
State:: VIC
Current Bushtracker owner:: Yes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PJ
I think you will find that you are not legal with the 4 tonne tow upgrade if you do not use the 1200 lb WDS.
I was told this, it may be different in other states.
I was able to get ours nose down by fitting the hitch under the drawer bar and moving the tow hitch into the second lowest hole for the bottom bolt and angling the top back slightly to allow the WDS bars to fit.

Hope this helps.

Regards John
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