LOAD RATINGS ON REAR TYRES, WHEN FULLY LOADED....

[Bushtracker]

Hello Friends,

I do have a pretty Big Rig, my Dodge Cummins Diesel is really loaded.. Like in the back, a fridge freezer, a bed slide out, big tool box, smaller Sidchrome 10 drawer tool box, and a 230 litre auto shut off fuel bowser... Hmmm, I just like to travel heavy I guess..

Now my 21' Bushtracker is one of the heaviest ever built. It has the Air Suspension with tank for tyres and air tools (up 60 kg), fibreglass exterior (up 60 kg), a new 7.5 kg washing machine that turns into a 4 kg dryer we want to trial (up 60 kg), an Electric start 3 kva Honda EU3.0is that we wanted to see if it would run TWO Truma Aventa II air units (up 69 kg and yes it does), two roll out slides outs on a big box, for the new gas bottle easy access, (up 20 kg), two 200 AH Lithium set ups (extra 20 kg), 6 solar panels up two from the normal 3-4 (say up 30 kg), big Stainless Marine style fridge with 70 kg roll out freezer (25 kg?), power step, and about every option we are thinking about and playing with...

So, my Bushtracker has a ball weight over 400 kg. And my 2500 Dodge Cummins Diesel Ram has air bags inside the coils so it is really like a 3500... The point of all of this? REAR TYRES, THIS IS NOT A DUALLY, NOT A DRW, AN SRW (Single Rear Wheel)... My 20" American truck tyres are rated at 1650 kg. So I took it to a weigh bridge..

What you do is pull on the weigh bridge: With just your front tyres of the tow vehicle off the wb. Get a weight. Then go forward until your rear tyres are just off the wb.. Get a weight. Fist weight minus the second weight, gives you the loading on your rear tyres. Now my tyres are about the biggest Load Rating in the Industry at 1650 kg, that equates to 3300 kg for the two of them. I am so loaded up, the van and truck (full water tanks) weighed 6.20 Tons, and off the scale my van weighted 3.62 tons (heavy 21', about the heaviest), so the difference is 2.68 tons on the rear wheels..

Now that is OK, but when I got back I looked and I was about 50 kg off a full tank in the truck at say 50% between front and rear tyres, so +25kg.. And my big tank was down about 120 litres, at about 70% back from the front wheels so add (say 80 kg) if full. And my jerry cans in the front of the Bushtracker were not full, so OK, at 80% the distance from the suspension to ball, (add 35 kg max)... In total add on about 140 kg if totally full, brings me up to 2.82 so I am a good 15% or so below the Rated Maximum Load, (which is also at the maximum tyre pressure in this case 80 psi..).

The problem is that this is a 20" truck tyre. Most of you would not have that high of load rating. In bigger vans, vehicles loaded up or with boats on top, so that weigh bridge test and see what the actual load rating is on your rear tyres OK?

In my case, if I got much higher, I would need to get a Dual Rear Wheel Dodge, a DRW. Right now I am in the top end of an SRW category, and for safety I would rather be in the bottom end of a DRW category OK?

This test is particularly important to smaller tow vehicles, look at your load rating, and it is worthless unless you have that maximum tyre pressure (cold) to achieve it. Worth checking out..

Keep in mind, against popular belief, on a heavily loaded vehicle a rear tyre blow out is far worse that a front tyre blow out... You can counter steer a front tyre blow out from something like a rock bruise, but a rear tyre blow out can slew you over to the side pretty significantly...

On the Road, Ranger....

[Bill]

Steve

Just as a matter of interest, with these loads, what tyre pressures are you running in the Ram? Would you lower the pressures for gravel roads?

[kjgsledge]

Iam surprised the ball weight onya van is about 400+ kgs given its length and all the stuf on the front.
Kurt

[Bushtracker]

Bill,

I am pretty heavily loaded, when really loaded up for a trip I will be at about 90% of the Load Rating on the rear tyres... So, to get that load rating on the highway speeds, I am at it's maximum tyre pressure to get those ratings so 80 psi... Mind you I am travelling heavy, to be a "Good Will" Ambassador for Bushtracker and am carrying a full set of tools in power, mechanical, and battery run. Most People would not travel as heavy as I am going, in truck or van, but this Post is to make them conscious of the Load Ratings even on smaller vehicles that could be overloaded...

Now, with a coils suspension would I lower it off road? At slow speeds I can, but I don't know if I will. These are pretty tough truck tyres in 20"... In my case the answer is probably no. I am riding on air, both truck and van, it may not be necessary..

Kurt: The ball weight is about right. You want to be at 10% for highest stability and this is a heavily loaded van, over the normal by about 300 kg, and further carries a half a ton of water...

Regards, stg

[arthur uncle]

Fully loaded you would be getting close to calling into the 8t inspection stations

[Bushtracker]

First of all understand:
While it is true that the larger 3500 and F-350 category of American trucks actually meet the Medium Rigid classification, they do NOT enforce this...

Even with Duallies, DRW, they do not enforce this... I mean F-350 and the 3500's should also keep Log Books, but again it is not recognized nor enforced... I have never been signaled to pull off on the State Weigh Bridges wirh Duallies in the American trucks. My Mack Horsetruck? Yes. My Mitsubishi Horse truck 10-12 years ago? Yes. My current MAN 12 speed auto shift 4x4 Dual Cab? Yes. But not the American trucks...

It is an unenforced grey area... Regards, on the road........

[arthur uncle]

Word is that, in NSW at least, they are going to start pulling them in,

Apparently, a couple of NSW stations have lowered the min weight for inspection ,already.

[krisandkev]

I read on another forum that NSW has changed their regulations that now states a vehicle towing a van will be treated as one unit. Therefore if a sign directing vehicles over 4.5 t to pull into an inspection station that would include most cars towing a caravan. The forum suggested a caravan run of as many vans as possible to go to a NSW inspection site and see what happens when there is a long line of vehicles waiting and no room for trucks. Interesting. Kevin

[Bushtracker]

Note that we go up and down the Coast, Newell, Hume, to Melbourne and Sydney several times a year, and have not been pulled up or in...

Further, I have been to Melbourne both Newell and coastal route last year with a horsefloat on the back of the Dodge, a 24' one.. Ditto, not been pulled off. We just went to Adelaide then Hume Highway to Melbourne with three trucks and vans this month, and the same..

I have passed the Commercial one north of Brisbane countless times, and again we have not been pulled in...

Personally I do not think they can do all the private vehicles, only the larger Commercial ones. I am not at all worried about it.

Kind regards, road Ranger

[The Hob]

Kev

I think you should have another read. It was established it does not mean our normal caravans.. Someone over read the article.

From the ExplorOz forum :-

Current version for 6 February 2016 to date (accessed 23 February 2016 at 20:35)

Chapter 1Part 1.2Section 6

6 Meaning of heavy vehicle

(1) For the purposes of this Law, a vehicle is a heavy vehicle if it has a GVM or ATM of more than 4.5t.

(2) Also, for the purposes of this Law, a combination that includes a vehicle with a GVM or ATM of more than 4.5t is a heavy vehicle.
Note— Subsection 6 (2) is amended for New South Wales pending the commencement of the national scheme for the registration of heavy vehicles under this Law by omitting “other than in relation to registration under this Law”.

the Heavy Vehicle National Law (NSW) determines which vehicles are required to enter Heavy Vehicle Safety Stations and the above definition defines what vehicles must enter.

The important word involved is OR (not combined)
Sub Section 1) a vehicle is a heavy vehicle if it has a GVM (towing vehicle) OR ATM (trailer) of more than 4.5t.

Sub Section 2) Also, for the purposes of this Law, a combination that includes a vehicle with a GVM OR ATM of more than 4.5t is a heavy vehicle.

No where does it mention Gross Combined Weight (GCM)

Straight from Roads and Maritime Service quote;

All heavy vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Mass (GVM) greater than eight tonnes are required to enter a HVSS (except Chinderah and Pine Creek - 4.5 tonnes). These vehicles must enter a HVSS to ensure the vehicle meets safety and roadworthiness standards and that their drivers are complying with road transport laws.

My Landcruiser has GVM of 3.5 tonne and my caravan has a ATM of 3.5 tonne. The landcruiser does not have a GVM of over 4.5 tonne nor does the caravan have a ATM of over 4.5 tonne and therefore does not meet the criteria of being a heavy vehicle that is required to enter Heavy Vehicle Safety Stations. If it did, everything else would also apply like log books, fatigue requirements etc.

Heavy Vehicle National Law (NSW) No 42a

Current version for 6 February 2016 to date (accessed 23 February 2016 at 20:50)

Alan

[Bushtracker]

Hello Friends,
A Safety Tid-bit for you...

We now have Bushtrackers out there that are 20 years old now .. Some of you buying second hand Bushtracker vans, should look at the tyres as they do have a "Use By" date for safety reasons...


This is the older method of stamping tyres to show the Manufacture date... Note that due to the deterioration of the rubber, tyres can start to be unsafe after six years old.. OK? It is not just tread depth if they get too old. It is not worth the risk, if you have an older date, change them out for your own good. Retire them to a friends farm or something..




Since about 2000, this is the new method of marking the Manufacture date.. This will tell you how old they are, not just looking at tread depth..
I can tell you for sure, the tread gets harder from experience after about three years, but after six years you have the liability of a possible failure.



In your best interests, regards from the Ranger....

I mean ignore me? Don't listen? This is what can happen with disastrous results..

[andrebb]

I agree that the tire manufacturing date is important. Tires degrade over time.

[Rosiebear]

Had 2 of them, both rears, right was OK no damage apart from mud flap, left stove in the floor in the void space under the stove. Turns out tyres were original fit ( 2005) van and chassis, but manufacture date of tyres was 2003. Chassis supplier used old stock tyres, not an issue st the time, but 12 yrs on major problem!!!!. If you don't have the skills to self repair it could cost you a heap, or an insurance claim which may be denied because of tyre age. Check those dates on your tyres.

Problem is the dates are on the "fancy" side of the tyres with the white lettering, which are mostly put on the inside so as to not look so lairy. Get a torch and crawl under there...........

Furthermore I would urge fitting a set of tyre pressure and temp sensors.

Since fitting three weeks ago, March, '17, they have saved me having to purchase two new tyres, - one for the Van, and one on the Iveco (today). So they have paid for themselves already, less the cost of the valve repairs, $40 all up. In both cases the issue was faulty valve stems. Maybe less than 5,500K on them. I now expect to have more issues with valve stems as our trip around Aus progresses. 4,900K so far.

Strangely enough the valve stems are relatively new on every rim as I have recently replaced every tyre on the Van and Iveco, including two spares. I put it down to cheap valve stems made in China out of sub standard material. At least the TPMS picks them up as the pressure lowers, before the tyres delaminate from heat stress.

Wandered a bit off topic there but important info for consideration.

[DnGsTracker]

Hi Rosiebear

What band of tyre monitor did you use?

Glen

[Rosiebear]

Safety Dave, was 570 with a repeater which turns out I didn't need. Could have saved a 100 bucks.

[DnGsTracker]

Thank you for the info. I will order one today.

I have experienced the valve stem problem for a number of years now.

When I was getting one replaced in Kalgoorlie a couple of years back when the tyre repairer suggested I look at a valve stem replacement tool a tool supplier had just started stocking. I think it cost $50 at the time but it is the best $50 I have spent, having replaced a couple of valve stems while on the road.

The beauty of this system is it allows you to replace the valve stem without taking the wheel off the car or breaking the tyre bead. In fact it works best with the wheel still mounted.

I don't know the brand but if anyone would like to know I will dig it out of my spares box in the van.

Glen

[Bushtracker]

Hullo Mr Bushtracker,

Looking through the Forum under Load Ratings on Rear Tyres, I noticed with interest how to tell the manufacturing date of a tyre.

Went out and checked the tyres on our Bushtracker and to my surprise they were manufactured in 2002, 2003 and 2004. See attached image.

Our Bushtracker was delivered in October 2013 and these are the original tyres as supplied.

Have I interpreted the manufacturing date correctly?

Thanks for your assistance
Cheers XXXXX

*****************************

From: Bushtracker [mailto:sales@bushtracker.com]
Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2017 10:50 AM
To: XXXXXX XXXXXX
Subject: RE: Tyres

Hello XXXXX,
Steven Gibbs here, Director, Bushtracker,

No, I do not believe that can be correct. Go to Bridgestone and get a clarification. We get these direct from Bridgestone themselves, and the code may have changed as there has been a change of Manufacture between Australia and Japan.

It must be a differing code as there is no way we could get a fresh batch from Bridgestone at that age. They turn over the contents of their warehouses on a monthly basis…

Kind regareds, stg

Bushtracker
sales@bushtracker.com
www.bushtrackerownersforum.com
85 Enterprise St
KUNDA PARK QLD 4556
P (07) 5476 5833
F (07) 5476 9253

************************************

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for your prompt reply. Well I whipped off a tyre and took it down to my local Bridgestone agent who showed me where the date code is located. It is actually on the back of the tyres as fitted. The tyres were manufactured in 2012.

I then sent a photo (attached) to Bridgestone for clarification of the code symbols. There reply is:

EHLTJKK3412
EH – Production Plant is Kurume Factory Japan
LT – 265/75R16 tyre size
JKK – Tyre specification
3412 – Tyre produced 34th Week 2012

As to the other code of P1103. This is the mould number.

Anyway - I am glad that's sorted and I humbly apologise for hassling you guys. I simply didn't think that there were more markings on the other side of the tyre. A novice mistake by myself.

Thanks again for your assistance.
Cheers XXXXXX

***************************

No worries, Kind regards, Steven Gibbs, Director

[Rosiebear]

Thank you for the info. I will order one today.

I have experienced the valve stem problem for a number of years now.

When I was getting one replaced in Kalgoorlie a couple of years back when the tyre repairer suggested I look at a valve stem replacement tool a tool supplier had just started stocking. I think it cost $50 at the time but it is the best $50 I have spent, having replaced a couple of valve stems while on the road.

The beauty of this system is it allows you to replace the valve stem without taking the wheel off the car or breaking the tyre bead. In fact it works best with the wheel still mounted.

I don't know the brand but if anyone would like to know I will dig it out of my spares box in the van.

Glen

Glen,
I would love the details on a tool to change valve stem without breaking the bead, or removing the wheel or tyre. I expect to have a few more crook valve stems this trip due to poor quality materials.

[DnGsTracker]

Hi

The tool is called an "AME Tire Valve Tool" item number 51025.

The instructions are at https://ameintl.net/wp-content/uploads/ ... ctions.pdf



I found that I needed to grind the tip of the funnel down to fit into the valve stem cut out on LC200 mag wheels.




Its a bit of a struggle the first time you use it but a bit of dishwashing liquid helps the valve stem slip smoothly down the funnel.

The tool is available online from https://www.amazon.com/AME-51025-Quick- ... B005K8E9FY but it should be able to get one from a tyre fitter.

Regards

Glen

[pjfollyfarm]

Thanks for a very interesting post Glen.

Do you know if recent 200 series Landcruisers use the standard TR413 snap in valve stems, or do they require a longer or non standard type?

Much appreciated......

[pjfollyfarm]

Thanks for a very interesting post Glen.

Do you know if recent 200 series Landcruisers use the standard TR413 snap in valve stems, or do they require a longer on non standard type?

Much appreciated......

[DnGsTracker]

Hi PJ

I think the LC200 uses standard valve stems.

I had all the van stems replaced in Kalgoorlie when one of them started leaking. We didn't have any further problems for the rest of the trip.

When we got home I decided to give the tool a go while I had all the tools to recover from any problems. After replacing a stem on the van wheel I noticed that the LC200 mags had a small cut out which the funnel would not fit into. I used a bench grinder to reduce the outside diameter down so it would fit snugly. It is important that the funnel is held tight up against the wheel rim.

I have not had to replace a valve stem on the cruiser but have since replaced another one on the van.

I hope this helps.

Glen

[Rosiebear]

Just have to find a seller in Au now, nothing on Ebay. You would think they would be available somewhere. It looks a great tool.

[pjfollyfarm]

Just have to find a seller in Au now, nothing on Ebay. You would think they would be available somewhere. It looks a great tool.

I found several on eBay but based in the US. Some still quite reasonable in both cost and mailing as long as your credit card doesn't rip you off too much in foreign transaction costs.........

[DnGsTracker]

Hi

Sorry I messed up the links. The link for the tool on Amazon is https://www.amazon.com/AME-51025-Quick- ... B005K8E9FY

Glen

[Rosiebear]

Thanks guys, just looked on ebay au. Looks like a trip offshore..

[datama]

Guys,
I just bought mine Sunday from AMAZON as it was the cheapest. To give you an idea of costs, here is what I paid:
AME -51025-Quick Valve Change $US23.67
12v Extension cord 20A $US12.95
Postage $US13.27

Total Cost in $Aus: $64.51

So will be interested in what the Credit Card actually charges me.

[flyingkiwi]

Ram 2500 2019 towing 20 foot BT. Ram loaded up to wee bit less than GVM. Tires on Ram Nexen LT275/70R18 running 60 psi on front and 80 psi on back when on Black Top. Anyone got any advice on what to drop pressures to on the corrugations (Hells gates to Borroloola for instance). Anyway of getting around low pressure alarm on TPMS?

[Ricky]

Anyway of getting around low pressure alarm on TPMS?

AEV make a ProCal that recalibrates your TPMS. That part is relatively easy. Mine is set to 60 with alarms at 50. They cost about $275.

You will need to consider your tires though. What you’re running likely achieve their max load rating at their max tire pressure, so lowering them below 80psi may reduce the load rating of your tires below the trucks legal and safe requirement. I don’t know your tires though, so I may well be wrong.

I run BFG AT’s (just as an example) in a 305/65R18 that have a higher load rating at their max of 60psi than the standard tires do at their max of 80psi. I run them at 55, which vastly improves ride, handling, wear and traction (especially in the wet) and still has a higher load rating at 55psi than the standard tires do at 80psi.

On corrugated roads you have make a judgement call based on the road, your weight, the surface, etc. (as i’m sure you know). Personally I avoid dropping them to much just because of the weight in the back with the BT in tow and the extra roll you get on hard surfaces with lower pressures. When we went up Cape York last winter i ended up settling on 46/48 psi, and took it gently. Lower would save the tires some more and perhaps reduce the likihood of punctures (not that i got any), but i prefer less tire roll and a bit more pressure to support the weight. Talk to 10 people you will get 10 different answers.

[Laarby]

I’m certainly one of those 10,
Over the last couple of years with a BT behind a F250 upgrade to a F350 suspension due to the GVM restriction. I’m comfortable have driven 10000+ on roads like the Gibb up to the Cape, the Great Central etc. a with a ball load of 400kg+ with a tyre pressure of 28 psi all around on the tug as well as the BT. Smooth as.. driving to the conditions with no damage to anything, and no flatties.
Note: the BT and tug has also airbag suspension.
Cheers,
Marinus

[Ricky]

I’m certainly one of those 10

I don't disagree with you at all, a lot of the choice just comes down to personal preference, but also vehicle setup, type of tires, etc. I guess thats why everyone is hesitant to ever answer these tire pressure questions throughout the forum with anything more than "you need to make a call based on the conditions", because so much of it depends on these things and any answer thats right for one of us is quite likely to be wrong for another.

[Pompey]

The compliance plate lists the gvm and max weight for front and rear axles. The tyres therefore that came with the vehicle must suit the weight limits of either axle. The tyres have a load rating. As long as you don’t exceed the axle max weight and don’t put a tyre with a lower weight rating then all is good. I bought a portable scale that can weigh each wheel individually. Saves me having to run the risk of being overweight or trying to find a weighbridge.

[shallowal]

I bought a portable scale that can weigh each wheel individually.

Do you have a name or link to the scale you bought?

[Pompey]

I bought a portable scale that can weigh each wheel individually.

Do you have a name or link to the scale you bought?

I tried to take a photo but it wouldn’t upload.

It’s made by Reich and they call it easy driver. I’d suggest you look up Reich and look up caravan or vehicle portable scales

[Sal and John]

I am certainly not an expert on these matters. However, as I read the tealeaves

(a) the state websites and (most, if not all) roadside stations appear to specify (the latter on the site signage) what weights they want to stop. As an aside, coming back down from Sydney the other day via the coast, I was passing a station (no lights) but saw a truck pulled up being talked to by a pair of scalies. Being conservative, I pulled in to make sure I didn't blot my copybook. The scalie was very nice and basically told me unless the lights were on, they weren't interested and, when I said "guess no-one loves me" just grinned and waved me on ...

(b) from my logbook I read that fatigue regulated is anything with a GCM in excess of 12 tonne. Am I then correct in thinking that more than a few heavy ute/van combinations should be on log books ? (I am anyway as the truck is 13t).

On the subject of scales (in which I do have some competence) be very careful in respect of accuracy and repeatability. Also, some of them are very sensitive to the supporting ground surface and, especially on loose surfaces, can be very imaginative in their reading outputs.